[FIXED]Initial Thoughts/Suggestions

[Arquibus]

I downloaded the beta last night and have spent a fair bit of time with it today. I'm am pleased with what I've seen thus far. I have had trouble with crashes and whatnot, but that is to be expected with a beta. I have made it as far as 1909 and will be continuing tomorrow, but I thought I might make a few suggestions now.

First, I've noticed some engine types and configurations to be missing. I looked in the xml and saw that some of what I thought was missing would come about later, and that is good and as it should be. But some things are still missing, notably Steam engines, the option for a W18 down the line, engines of an X configuration, rotary piston engines (different from the Wankel, which obviously is pistonless), Turbine engines, twincharging, maybe even electrocharging. All of these are things that have been experimented with throughout the history of the automobile, with varying success.

As for functionality, there are two things I've come across which seem to be problematic, though I could simply have not found the solution yet. The first is that even if I build the largest chassis possible, I cannot fit the largest engines I can build, by a very wide margin. Surely there must be a way to build a chassis which can support a massive V-16?

Secondly, I have not found any way to remove an old design from my...design hopper? I guess that's a good name for it. I'm currently selling six different models, some of which with three revisions, which for a lot of cluttered words. It would really be nice to put those old, worn-out designs to pasture.

I hope all this helps, and that I can offer additional advice and support in the future.

[MrX_ua]

My 2 cents..

- if you get crashes, please do send a ZIPed log in the bugs forums.. otherwise a crash specific to your hardwear might not get fixed, since noone one iwll ever know about it. (should be in C:\Users\Your_User_Name\Documents if I am not mistaken

- hint - there is even Quad turbocharger..rest - not sure

- regarding fitting the engine in the frame - it's just my guess at this point, but may be the car class is too small? May be a truck platform would alow you to use a larger engine? Also, there are separate sliders in the frame set-up that let you increase engine compartment did you use those?

[Eric.B]

I downloaded the beta last night and have spent a fair bit of time with it today. I'm am pleased with what I've seen thus far. I have had trouble with crashes and whatnot, but that is to be expected with a beta. I have made it as far as 1909 and will be continuing tomorrow, but I thought I might make a few suggestions now.

Yes sorry about the crashes, the 1.08 build is much less stable than 1.07. I am glad to see you enjoying the game so far.

First, I've noticed some engine types and configurations to be missing. I looked in the xml and saw that some of what I thought was missing would come about later, and that is good and as it should be. But some things are still missing, notably Steam engines, the option for a W18 down the line, engines of an X configuration, rotary piston engines (different from the Wankel, which obviously is pistonless), Turbine engines, twincharging, maybe even electrocharging. All of these are things that have been experimented with throughout the history of the automobile, with varying success.

Some configurations appear when they do historically. Sadly I don't have the files in front of me so I can not look at them, but a good example would be the W engines. They weren't designed until the 90s if memory serves me correctly.

Other styles of engines and fuel types will probably be added at a later date. There are no guarantees however. That being said adding anything I miss is as simple as editing the xml file you found this info in. I've tried to make the game as easily modifiable as possible. Though I will admit it could be easier to mod.

As for functionality, there are two things I've come across which seem to be problematic, though I could simply have not found the solution yet. The first is that even if I build the largest chassis possible, I cannot fit the largest engines I can build, by a very wide margin. Surely there must be a way to build a chassis which can support a massive V-16?

Balancing is still in the works, but if i'm not mistaken you'll have to wait for better frame styles to come out before you can use a v16, Do you have ladder frames yet?

Secondly, I have not found any way to remove an old design from my...design hopper? I guess that's a good name for it. I'm currently selling six different models, some of which with three revisions, which for a lot of cluttered words. It would really be nice to put those old, worn-out designs to pasture.

I don't have the game in front of my because I'm on a business trip and I do not own a laptop fast enough to play my game Anyway if i'm not mistaken you can go into the RnD department and end a design. This will remove it from production and remove it from lists.

This may also be done in the mega menu, which you should be able to get to by hitting f1? one of the function keys, I forget which.

I hope all this helps, and that I can offer additional advice and support in the future.

Sorry I couldn't be more of help right now. If you have not found out how to do any of this I will reply with a better answer when I get home.

[Arquibus]

I agree that most of the tech dates look pretty accurate, and while I don't want to be too uppity about it, I am a historian of science and technology, so I do have a degree of knowledge here. The three bank W engines come out in 1906, and the later 4 bank ones in 2001. I was talking about the 3 bank engines when I mentioned the possibility of an 18 cylinder model. This was experimented on by Volkswagen when they were building early concepts of cars that would eventually lead to the Veyron. They scrapped the 18 cylinder design in favor of a 16 cylinder four bank engine, but I imagine under different circumstances the 18 may have been viable.

At any rate, it's true, I have passing knowledge about editing .xml files, and I may experiment with it, but I would be worried about introducing accidental problems and balancing issues with the game. It may not be any trouble at all, I simply don't know.

With the engine thing I mentioned, it's not that I can't build a V16 that would potentially fit my cars, it's just that I could potentially build an engine roughly 3 times as large as I can mount. The V16 seems to max at a length of 168 inches, but the the longest engine mounting on my ladder frame chassis was something like 62 inches. Interestingly, the carriage chassis seemed to allow the same size, and in the .xml I'm not seeing a correlative stat to size. Perhaps it's connected to one of the others, but I'm not sure. Perhaps I ought to experiment with that as well, if I have time. Maybe you never intended for folks to use 20 liter engines. I admit it's a bit ridiculous, but stuff like that I love.

As an aside to the engines, I have noticed that when I'm designing an engine there's no torque readout. There's HP and PS, which strikes me as odd since both measure horsepower.

I did find the tool to disable car production, which was helpful. Unfortunately, though, the old models still clutter up the sales menus. This does make sense, however, since it is possible to have cars left over from old production runs if you made more than you sold. Maybe a separate option to remove them from sales would be in order? At any rate, keep up the good work.

[Eric.B]

When I get back home in 3 days I'll give you detailed information about the xml files.

Torque is heavily effected by gearing, as is horsepower of course. The horsepower displayed while designing is an estimation with generic gearing. I will look to see if there is room to fit torque in the smaller resolutions when I get back.

If i'm not mistaken year also effects chassis lengths. I will give you the formaly again, when I get back.
Also I still have some balancing to do in this reguard. (it's a lot better than it used to be though)

If i'm not mistaken 3-bank W's were called VV's ? While the 4 bank W's were called W's

I am missing a few formats, I admit. But again, not something I'm really worried about until most of the other stuff is taken care of. I have made a note of the stuff you have mentioned in this thread though (steam engines, etc)

[Arquibus]

Take your time, there's no rush. I'm just an amateur when it comes to this stuff anyway.

Fair point about the torque being measured at the wheels. Do they ever measure it at the driveshaft? I've never heard of such a thing, it may not be a meaningful measurement, but if the HP is an estimate with a generic transmission maybe a torque measurement is possible too? Not sure if it would be different. Physics wasn't my strong suit in college, which is why I left engineering for history.

The 3 banks are W's, the four are VVs. You've got it that way in the xml. Four banks are called VVs simply because the easiest explanation for them is a pair of V engines side by side. The earliest iteration of the engine was exactly that, in fact. An aircraft engine, I think, but of course Volkswagen co-opted it in the early 2000s, first a W8 for a Passat, a W12 for the Phaeton and Bentley Continental, and then the 16 in the Bugatti. I'm not sure if anyone else ever used one of the four bank style in a car or not.

Anyway, you're right, this stuff is just details, and it seems like you've got big plans yet to bring to fruition. If I can get something working well, I'll post here or send it to you or somesuch so you can look it over. All I need is some time. Pleasant travels!

[Eric.B]

They do measure at the driveshaft, just not in automobile applications. HP is just (torque*rpm / 5252) so generic torque is calculated as well. That being said, It's a matter of being able to fit it on the screen in the 1028x768 screen size.

I stand corrected on the VV, W motors. And actually in the XML I have W engines set to 1906, I'm just missing the option for 18 cylinders. It won't be too hard to add...

[Eric.B]

Just to point out, we've added 18 cylinder option to the game, it'll be included in the 1.18 patch.

[Frankschtaldt]

Take your time, there's no rush. I'm just an amateur when it comes to this stuff anyway.

Fair point about the torque being measured at the wheels. Do they ever measure it at the driveshaft? I've never heard of such a thing, it may not be a meaningful measurement, but if the HP is an estimate with a generic transmission maybe a torque measurement is possible too? Not sure if it would be different. Physics wasn't my strong suit in college, which is why I left engineering for history.

The 3 banks are W's, the four are VVs. You've got it that way in the xml. Four banks are called VVs simply because the easiest explanation for them is a pair of V engines side by side. The earliest iteration of the engine was exactly that, in fact. An aircraft engine, I think, but of course Volkswagen co-opted it in the early 2000s, first a W8 for a Passat, a W12 for the Phaeton and Bentley Continental, and then the 16 in the Bugatti. I'm not sure if anyone else ever used one of the four bank style in a car or not.

Anyway, you're right, this stuff is just details, and it seems like you've got big plans yet to bring to fruition. If I can get something working well, I'll post here or send it to you or somesuch so you can look it over. All I need is some time. Pleasant travels!

Just to clarify, all of the VW "W" engines are the four bank style. Your description seems to suggest the other way. That could just be me not reading you clearly though. They were initially called VV's to distinguish them from the original three bank W's but everyone just calls them W's now anyway. The three bank W's were indeed used in aircraft as well as boats. I don't believe they have ever been used in a car. If they have, it was a while ago and low volume.

On that note, and slightly off topic, another possibility for the game could be what is called a "VR" engine, developed by VW in the 80's. These are basically halfway between a V and an in-line where the cylinders are at an angle from each other but not wide enough to allow them to be directly opposite each other as in a normal V.
They are basically half of a four bank W, in fact, the four bank W is an evolution of the VR idea.
Could be worth adding into the game?
Their advantage is that they are shorter than an in-line without being much wider (if at all) and still only needing one cylinder head. They aren't as short as V engines and they aren't as well balanced as either so that would be their disadvantage.